Telling the story from our point of view

Blog Archive

July 04, 2005

Gays after LIA...again.

This is a recurring rainbow nightmare! The same forces that squealed and lied about LIA's live in program the first time which prompted an investigation by the Tennesee DCS, are at it again. Remember, I was the one who said it here first. (read Case Closed) I told you this wasn't over. Hate is a powerful motivator especially when used against those who stand to blow your carefully crafted cover. Now, the Tennessee Department of Health has notified LIA that they are suspected of "operating illegally" according to a story by the homosexual weekly The Blade. As it was established after the first investigation, there was no evidence that the boy who allegedly prompted the whole exgay witch hunt, was even a program recipient. But like the proabortionists in '73 who used Norma McCorvey (Roe v Wade) to push abortion rights, these gays have only one purpose for "Zach". Use him as a weapon against the hated exgays. On a related side note, exgay lampooneer Peter Toscano issues a telling comment on exgaywatch saying that the real reason this whole fiasco came about was to create a stained reputation for LIA. Says Toscano on the outcome of the TN DCS investigation, "But the stigma of this investigation will always be there, regardless of the outcome. Yes, we are innocent until proven guilty in the US, but in reality, once someone is investigated, they live with a stain." In other words, Toscano is saying regardless of what LIA does, or what is legally determined about the program, we hate them and will continue to undermine their work. Hoods are coming off!


PBCliberal said...

I believe this is a new investigation into a complaint filed long before you said "case closed."

I believe there is a Zach, from some of the posts of the folks at QAC protecting him from having his picture taken by news crews covering the demonstration, but I have no first hand knowledge.

I do know that Toscano spent $30,000 trying to become straight, much of it at Love in Action. The stained reputation comes largely from one founder publishing a book detailing six success stories from LIA's San Rafael days, and having to withdraw it because all six failed to change their sexuality, and from the other founder denouncing the program when his best friend committed suicide from his failure to change.

The suicide note should be required reading for you, Foster. Its in the Sylvia Pennington book Ex-Gays, There are None and was posted on the web.

I agree with you, however, in that a full, open, discussion of Love in Action and reparative therapy would be of great benefit. But openness and access to information doesn't seem to be in the LIA agenda. Take a look at Zach's myspace site, read the rules for Love in Action, and tell me how cutting somebody off from society, telling them what clothes to wear, what books to read, what movies to watch, and what friends to have supports openness and access or informed decisions. To me it says brainwashing and mind-control, but perhaps that is the right of parents when it comes to their teenage children. Then again, maybe its only their right if they employ professionals who have the credentials to do the job.

DL Foster said...

you seem to focus on the "failures" of some exgays to become "straight" as the proof positive or perhaps fundamental argument to brand all of it as failure. That shows an incredible amount of social, religious, and personal immaturity. What belief system in exisitence has not had it share of failures? Even those who touted its successes have experience painful failures. Abraham Lincoln failed numerous times before he was elected our 16th president. Yes, any failure has the potential to produce suicide, depression and other life devaluations. People have committed suicide because a friend died, because the failed school, because they didnt get the job they wanted, because they lost money or couldnt pay a debt. That someone committed suicide because they couldnt become "straight" is nothing unusual considering it is a part of human frailty. Every life is valuable, but don't hold up exgay related suicides as exhibit #1. Its just a hollow argument.

Secondly, all I can say is Toscano messed up big time. He was stark, raving mad to pay ANYBODY 30,000 dollars to "become straight". Had he asked me I would have quickly said "no, save your money". It doesnt cost anything to change your sexual identity. It does however cost to house and feed people and pay building mortages and property taxes, pay staff salaries etc,etc. But change your sexual orientation: completely free. I didnt pay a dime. Maybe you should pass that on to others who are considering it.

Finally, stop pretending that LIA has some secret "agenda". All organizations(from the White House to Jimmy's Pizza Parlor) possess information that they do not intend to be disclosed to "outsiders". That it was leaked is unfortunate. LIA will just have to deal with it.

PBCliberal said...

Six of six is hardly "some." It appears that long term change is hard to maintain. I'd suggest that, when faced with a pretty long history of failure, to not admit this and therefore foist unreasonable expectations on LIA's charges while acting as if they're reasonable; to have that result in the death of people like Jack McIntyre with his suicide note so clear as to why he chose that option, is the socially, religiously and personally immature course. LIA models itself on drug rehabilitation yet does not take to heart one of its basic tenents: "The addict repeatedly does the same thing expecting different results."

I'm not saying adults should not be free to choose counseling to change their behavior, as long as they know what Spitzer found: it is incredibily difficult, few, and only the most highly motivated, succeed.

That is not the case with the story of this 16 year old. From the website, it appears the parents are paying from $4 to $8K for 8 weeks of counseling in a non-residential program. From the 16-year-old's blog, the only thing he's highly motivated to do is have this nightmare end.

All organizations do have things they don't want disclosed. But sometimes, there's a greater public good in their disclosure. How many lives would have been saved if the Downing Street Memos had been disclosed over White House objections before we marched into the quagmire that is Iraq. Wouldn't devout Muslims and Orthodox Jews be aided by the disclosure that pork by-products are in a mythical Jimmy's Pizza Parlor's beef topping?

And aren't all of us who watch these reparative therapy programs advantaged by the knowledge of what really goes on there? To me it speaks clearly why there is a literal parade of people coming out of them calling them damaging, and why most of the professional health care community agrees.

DL Foster said...

The great thing about this blog is that it is about perspectives. Having said that, pbc, you have stated your perspective.

Im still perplexed as to why you would hold up six --count 'em six--people and make a point. Then you point out ONE more, a suicide victim, and say unnn-huh gotcha!

Guy, lets be real. Hardly. There are tens of thousands of exgays, former homosexuals everywhere who have not even stepped foot into a reparative therapy program or even an exgay ministry and are completely whole. And just because you dont know them or they dont even say they are, doesnt change the fact that they are. So statiscally, your six plus one is not even a blip on the radar of credible determination. If there were say...6,000 people who had committed suicide, then I'd give this up myself. I'd like to challenge you to list all the people who have committed suicide because they (1) willingly went into a reorientation program (2)committed suicide DIRECTLY as a result of "failure" in the program.

I agree with the public right to know concept. The same one that prolifers have been arguing about for decades about the abortion death camps. The public has a right to know what really goes on there. Recently we have been able to get horrifying glimpses into the torture chambers and the quack
doctors who are butchering women's bodies and emotions in the name of "choice".

As for the people who are entering into these programs why is it that they dont do their own "homework" and determine before they commit, that its not for them? And where did the idea that they could change come from in the first place? It couldnt have come from the exgay reparative therapy people.
I mean if you try something and it doesnt work, then it doesnt mean its bad, just that it didnt work for you, especially when there are thousands of other people it DID work for.

Common sense. Thats all.

Anonymous said...

Gay groups, have used there webpages, and blogs to turn this into a circus! This is about a parents right to make choice's for ther children. Gay activist saw a cute boy, and wanted to raise him! The truth is the gay community has no right getting involved, in a family situation. Also they are the same groups who bashed conservatives over Terry Shivioa case in Florida. The gay activist think they are moraly superior and will use pits power to deny parents there rights! As a parent I want to make my childs decisions not Gay Activist at the Human Rights Campaign of Shame!