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October 17, 2005

Reaping What You Sow...

Some black gays may being crying foul, but who's really to blame?
Keith Boykin and gay activist sidekick Jasmyne Cannick, berated and ridiculed Rev. Willie Wilson publicly by insinuating that he (and other black preachers) were gay. This was apparent retaliation for Wilson's sermonic remarks about lesbians at his church. Their faulty and laughable premise was that because one opposes homosexuality, that makes them suspect of being gay. A completely idiotic and illogical supposition. Additionally, Boykin stood by and did or said nothing when rabid Boykinites on his forum slurred and called Rev. Wilson all types of crude, garish names. What should he expect then other than to get straight up played? Judge the ethical implications for the Reverend all you want, but when you disparage somebody (even though some cautioned Boykin against it) like that and show up at THEIR house, don't expect to get a glass of ice cold lemon tea and a nice chair to sit in.

Wilson may have had a moment of ghetto justice fall on him when he banned Boykin from speaking. Boykin must have forgotten how he crowed about forcing Bishop Eddie Long to defend himself in his own house. Don't he know that preachers talk to each other? Oh,snap! Wait a minute, this is Mr. Dartmouth-worked at the White House-don't go to church-gay activist. Of course, he wouldn't know that. Wilson told the Washington Post Boykin "straight out lied." Methinks Boykin's egotistical and messiah-induced complex led him into it like a blind sheep. What else could have led him to push for such a extreme measure of addressing his opponents leading up to the very public forum he was lobbying to be a part of? He played his hand with the "outing" series and then got played big time.
After all the glowing press releases here and here announcing that he would speak at the MMM, the rug was pulled out from under his feet. Ego won't let you see setups like that. Boykin has been silent as accusations against a perhaps rival group, surfaced. The truth is that MMM actually did have one openly homosexual speaker, but he didn't subscribe to the white racist gay agenda that Boykin adopted.

That's why Boykin's organization issued a press release stating that no "openly gay speaker" had been allowed to speak. Of course, that was a lie and perhaps intended to slight the "same-gender loving" camp. The other speaker, Cleo Manago, provided the Washington Blade a few choice quotes about his beliefs, affirming that Farrakhan's choice of him was a "natural selection."

“Other organizations have done everything from inside a gay box,”
“Our work is out of a black community box while affirming and raising issues relevant to same-gender loving people,” he said.
“So-called homophobia and so-called heterosexism are not the real estate of just one group,” he said. “It’s in the culture. There are lots of homosexuals who are homophobic.”
Homophobia and heterosexism, he said, are “white terms.”
Perhaps a little too black for the gay and lesbian crowd?
At any rate, Boykin really should retire. He has failed to secure any substantial victories for black homosexuals mainly because he embraces an agenda set by racist white gays. i.e. so-called marriage "equality",etc. He failed to resurrect the now defunct National Black Gay Leadership Forum. Then, turned around and questioned whether it was "relevant". Another failure for the savior of the black gay community.

So, then we come to the reworded "National Black Justice Coalition" Talk about sell out. They were too afraid to use the words "gay" or "lesbian" in the title because they knew that the black community would recognize the trojan horse initiative. The same word that Manago rejects. The same speaker the NBJC denied existed. Round and round we go.

28 comments:

m.sheldon said...

Very interesting comments Dl,very interesting indeed. I am not a supporter of your blog nor do I support many of the views that you express on here but your blog is very intriguing and I guess that's why many of your detractors continue to come back.

DL Foster said...

detractors are welcome here, but not solely to launch attacks in an attempt to discredit me. They should learn diversity in their responses and try it out. Personal attacks will get them no where here. I am, however very interested in their point of view, sans disparaging remarks about my personhood. It takes mature people to do that when you disagree strongly.

Anonymous said...

so I guess someone disagreeing with the views that you express is discrediting you? Come on Dl of all people you have the nerve to say that some of your detractors should learn diversity in their responses when this is something that you take liberties with and don't practice yourself.

Anonymous said...

"Sisters making more money than brothers and it’s creating problems in families … that’s one of the reasons many of our women are becoming lesbians." — Rev. Willie Wilson

Yeah, there's a guy worth defending.

DL Foster said...

"Sisters making more money than brothers and it’s creating problems in families … that’s one of the reasons many of our women are becoming lesbians."

Apparently,(because you are white and haven't grown up under the rod of slavery, jim crow and institutionalized racism) you haven't seen the terrible marriage/relationship statistics between black men and women which btw are greater than any other ethnicity. There are dynamics in the black community that you would never understand and YES it does become a contributing factor to some women choosing another woman as a sexual partner. Black men's self esteem is at an all time low and when black women make more money become more independent and need him less and less, it becomes a factor in the breakdown of the family. Rev. Wilson was not that far off.

DL Foster said...

so I guess someone disagreeing with the views that you express is discrediting you?

Let's not play jack and jill silliness. I know (hopefully you do too) the difference between someone disagreeing with my viewsand someone making a personal --sometimes trite-- attack against me. I repeat if that's ALL they crawled in here to accomplish it will be sandblasted quickly and without apology.

vesti said...

Black men's self esteem is at an all time low

Can I respectfully ask how you came to this conclusion? My guess is that it would be difficult to assert that black men had lower self-esteem when they were in bondage, or before they had the right to vote.

On its surface, the statement seems similar to ones like "threats to the family are greater than ever before" - items that are completely unverifiable and are simply the creation of the author's imagination. But if you have a citation for the assertion, I would be interested in reviewing the source material.

vesti said...

Typo in my previous post - it should read:

My guess is that it would be difficult to assert that black men had lower self-esteem THAN when ...

Dell Gines said...

Good post bro...check out the blog...

www.dellgines.com

I am adding you to my blog roll...

Dell Gines said...

I agree with DL...

Black Men's 'cosmic' self-esteem is at an all time low. That is why we allow and tolerate ourselves to disparage ourselves through radio and media.

That is why in Ohio, a Neo-Nazi rally occurs and we fight each other, and burn businesses and homes, instead of whipping neo-nazi tale.

That is why we follow politicians and parties who have demonstrated they do not have our best interest in mind through action.

That is why we have a 70% single parent home rate in our communities.

If that isn't asymptomatic of low black male self-esteem than what is?

vesti said...

Dell,

That is why we have a 70% single parent home rate in our communities.

I've never seen this statistic before. Is this in selected communities, or across all communities where African-Americans are prevalent? If you have a source, I would be very interested in reviewing it.

I believe that most (if not all) people who post here would agree with the assertion that self-esteem among black men is often problematic. I don't think that's at issue.

DL Foster said...

Vesti,
please verify whether you are a white male or female. Further, when one IS a black male, lives in the black community and deals with, on a regular basis black men, what do I need with some stuffed shirt empirical study to prove my assertion? You may want to see one (which is why I question your identity), but I dont neither does anyone else who has seen the reality of daily life for many black men. Im no bleeding heart liberal by far, but I aint crazy either. Rev Wilson's premise was on target.

Although there are statistics, Im not willing to quote any until you verify your gender and race. On da flip side, what are your thoughts on THE POST about Keith Boykin aside from the access roads you seem to be fixated on driving down.

DL Foster said...

Dell,
not only does this 70% fatherlessness rate contribute to the low self esteem of black boys, many choose paths they probably would not have gone down were there a responsible man (father) in the home. Although not a smoking gun cause of homosexuality,it is nevertheless a serious factor as it is in violence and other factors plaguing black America. That's why Boykin and company are off track to push a counter agenda rather than addrressing these types of issues as black men. Homosexuals getting married is not going to affirm some fatherless kid's manhood. They dont have a clue. White gays mirror the larger white population which is detached from the reality of black life. Boykin should have grasped that by now.

vesti said...

Vesti, please verify whether you are a white male or female.

People are people. And I don't doubt that you see many examples of hardship on a daily basis. I'm simply suggesting that your rhetorical style may become even more effective and reach a broader audience if you simply stick with what you know and can prove. Stories and anecdotes can be powerful indicators of social problems, and you can use your experiences to your advantage in this regard.

"Stuffed-shirt" studies can be truly helpful in identifying the root causes of the problems you cite. Sometimes solutions to problems are not as obvious as they may seem. Rather than simply dismissing studies as "ivory tower", you could leverage your experiences to lend additional perspective to their conclusions. And I do have to say that most university studies in the social sciences are now done with the partnership and cooperation of local community based organizations and church groups - which makes them much more inherently valid.

vesti said...

This study pretty much confirms the 70% figure, and also makes some interesting comments on the root causes of many issues of poverty:

http://www.pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/usatoday.html

vesti said...

On da flip side, what are your thoughts on THE POST about Keith Boykin

It was pretty shameful. Why I should care what Keith Boykins says or does is another issue. Frankly I never heard of him before you brought him to my attention.

Anonymous said...

c'mon now...

"Sisters making more money than brothers and it’s creating problems in families … that’s one of the reasons many of our women are becoming lesbians."

women attracted to men don't start dating other women because they encounter insecure men!
black men have been dealing with insecurity for years. black women, that love and care for them, have been dealing with it as well.
i don't think that the breakdown in relationships and families is about who makes more. the breakdown comes when immaturity, selfishness, lack of compassion, lack of communication, and irresponsibility take up residence in the home.
people are marrying too soon. they haven't had time to "know" themselves and deal with the issues of their pasts; and when they add them to someone else's baggage, it's overwhelming!
a mature black man won't let himself be intimidated because his woman is successful and independent. the fact that she is all those things and has chosen him as her partner should give him enough resolve to support her in the ways she needs and not feel less or unworthy.

signed,
Ms. M (a 30-something, head-to-toe black woman/mother/lover!)

DL Foster said...

women attracted to men don't start dating other women because they encounter insecure men!

That's a pretty confident statement. Are you so saying that you have personal knowledge that not one woman has ever entered into a lesbian relationship due to a negative situation with a man?

Although I agree that many black men and emotionally immature, the answer is not for a black woman to start abandoning them for other women or white men but work towards a solution that will rebuild the traditional family and stop this generational merry go round curse.

Robert said...

I have read an article from the Washington City Paper
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/cover/2005/cover0812.html
alleging that Rev. Wilson's statements are not factually based.
I.e., that his son in fact has a girlfriend, and couldn't go to the prom last year because he was a junior, and his school's prom is for seniors.

This report has been widely re-reported; however, as far as I can tell, the Rev. Wilson has not responded or commented on it.

DL Foster said...

Robert,
I think that maybe true. As a parent with children, I get a lot of stuff about their school activities confused. Although Wilson may have been **factually** incorrect about the son's prom, the emergence of so called gay-straight alliances have made it much easier for kids to "declare" their sexual preference. I'm sure to some people, perhaps even Wilson's son, this newfound openness among girls could be easily misconstrued as "all" the girls being lesbian, therefore he couldnt get a date.

Interesting though my oldest daughter who recently graduated, said that it (lesbian girls) had gotten so "bad" that heterosexual girls were afraid of going into the restrooms for fear of being accosted. Something to think about.

Anonymous said...

Are you so saying that you have personal knowledge that not one woman has ever entered into a lesbian relationship due to a negative situation with a man?

DL,
"negative situation" is much too general...rape, abuse, a deceptive boyfriend could all be considered "negative situations"...(without trying to lesson their severity) none of which would necessarily be the overriding cause to make someone heterosexual become homosexual. While I don't offhand know of any formerly heterosexual women now lesbian due to bad experiences with men, I'd be hard pressed to believe that 1)the feelings weren't there all along or 2)that the "detour" was made to avoid dealing with 'the true issue'...whatever that might be.
Ms.M

Anonymous said...

Maaan, I wonder if Boykin and feel these hits here from Atlanta. That was a hard word there. To me, if you're going to deal w/ Mr. Wilson, you better come hard. Based on hearing him live at my previous church, and reading some of his activities around the DC area, this brother comes real and he comes out hard: Ghettofied Cleric. It's all good. Unfortunately, it appears Mr. Boykin didn't realize how Bro. Wilson could be.

DL Foster said...

LOL @ anonymous.
Wilson is "ghettofied". But most black preachers can "go there" when they wanna.
Boykin has been roundly critized for being out of touch with black life. He may not have known that Dr Wilson could "bring it" hard like that. I read that Wilson was especSHOWly upset because someone sent him a copy of "the joy of gay sex" and it really ticked him off to high heaven. But also there is a strong belief now that Boykin actually fabricated his invitation, hence Wilson was right to say he "straight up lied". Its also interesting that Boykin his girl Donna Payne up to face the music. He has confessed that he didnt even go up on the stage, she did. She was the one who went back and told him no dice. I will post a letter someone has written detailing the fraudulent claims Boykin made about the invitation maybe tomorrow.

DL Foster said...

Ms M.
I see what youre saying. Sure "negative" is broad, but it also includes your initial premise (insecure men). I do personally know of women who will say they have left men, tried the woman to woman love because of negative sits with men, including insecurity. Don't underestimate human nature. Although actress Anne Heche didnt necessarily fit negative male experience bill, she nonetheless gave lesbianism a 3 year tryout with Ellen Degeneres. Then she went back to men. Or rather to a man.

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

10 19 05

Hello:
I found this blog via Black Electorate. Vesti; look at the Census statistics and the UCRs at FBI.gov and they will verify abortion rates among Black women, as well as the marriage and divorce rates of Blacks. The situation is really bad. I have known some women who tried lesbianism when they were lonely for a man. I started off college at Spelman and this attitude is far more common than you would imagine. I also think that this gay straight construct obscures the real meat of the matter; that many humans are along a continuum in terms of SEXUAL BEHAVIORS. My sister in law has been in a monogamous lesbian relationship for darn near twenty years, yet was married to two men previously. She doesn't profess to be gay or straigh; she simply is with the one she loves. All of that hate filled BS spewed by Mr. Boykin showed how off kilter he really is. He subsumes his Blackness for a White male patriarchal and GAY hegemony. He needs to learn how to think more critically. I wrote an article about this here is the link. BTW great post!

http://mrigmaiden.blogspot.com/2005/09/preaching-tolerance-lessons-learned.html

hungry4more said...

I found your blog on blackelectorate.com and I am feelin' you with regard to Mr. Boykin. I think KB has good intentions, but he needs to check his ego cause it's out of control.
what I don't agree with is the 70% fatherless rate in the black community. I think that stat may be based on another erroneous stat, the marriage rate in the black community. Many, many, black children are raised by stepfathers and stepmothers, who I don't believe are reflected in those stats. For me the biggest problem in the black community is the numbers of us, men and women in jail.

DL Foster said...

H4more thnx for stopping by.
Ego and the praise of people is a recipe for getting punk'd(no pun intended) big time. Boykin ought to set the record straight (again npi), but I doubt he will walk down the two steps necessary to do it.

Re the 70% fatherlessness and the black community, here's an interesting article to read. http://www.acton.org/ppolicy/comment/print.php?id=169

Mark J. Tuggle said...

Hotep.

Thank you for your sensitivity, my brother. I appreciate your insight & perspective. BMX is a community, in a community building community. We are unapologetic in our mission & unconditional w/ our love for Black folk - even those who don't know they don't who they are. I'm a spiritual being/loving child of God; an African-descended SGL man who has learned karma will mos def get your attention one way or another. Peace & Respect.